Am I wrong to assume this probably uses something similar to an Aluminium–air battery that is essentially non-rechargeable?
19th July, 2014 @ 12:25 a.m. (California Time)
It would be nice if Gizmag redaction did some facts checking before publishing articles promoting Nunzio La Vecchia. Although flowcells do exist, their performance is nowhere close to the claims described here.
I recommend googling a bit about the guy. The discussion on this page provides plenty of links to past and present scams of Nunzio La Vecchia:
19th July, 2014 @ 6:07 a.m. (California Time)
Amazing figures are quoted, but no technical explanation. And what is different between this and the Koenigsegg Quant featured back in March 2009 ?
20th July, 2014 @ 7:33 p.m. (California Time)
Sounds good - pull into the supermarket instead of the servo ...
"A kilo of salt please, oh, and can I use that outside tap?"
BUT - I can see the price of salt soaring as Big Govt spots the popularity, just like our supposedly cheap diesel soared in price.
20th July, 2014 @ 9:02 p.m. (California Time)
if it were true,what good would it do if it were out of reach of 99.99% of new car buyers?
21st July, 2014 @ 9:11 a.m. (California Time)
More details, this article: http://www.gizmag.com/900-hp-supercar-flow-battery/31091/.
21st July, 2014 @ 9:16 a.m. (California Time)
I agree the big deal here is the flowcell. If it actually performs as claimed it would be at least 20 times as efficient as the next best competitor that I have seen. With an over powered 900hp machine like this, a range of 375 miles would need something like 200kwh. They claim to get that from a tank that can fit in a motor-vehicle. The best "salt-water battery" I've seen has nowhere even close to that density.
So I will be eagerly watching to see if the rubber does indeed meet the road on these cells or if it is as Hovnimrsk Prdelac pointed out.
21st July, 2014 @ 9:28 a.m. (California Time)
It's not "salt water powered" at all. But most of us knew that.
21st July, 2014 @ 10:42 a.m. (California Time)
nickel metal hydride batteries are coming soon the pattent that the oil company Texaco bought and then suppressed the large format versions (LF) for last 15 years runs out at end of 2014.
1. Charges from 40%-80% in ONLY 15 min,
2. If operatedonly within the 40%-80% can last decades according to Toyota
3. Range over 120 miles with only 14 LF batteries as shown in EV1
4. Some news (owned by super rich oily persons) have already started anti NiMh "stories" saying they pollute landfills; not mentioning that Ni is so valuable that is recycled when finally they need it.
5. Ask why the frantic fear of this the only LF battery prevented from the market, surely the would be as afraid other batteries Unless this one really is that good.
6 Rav4 EV'S from 1998 are still onthe road with original NiMh batteries!
21st July, 2014 @ 10:58 a.m. (California Time)
Is this process cheaper then H2 fuel cell mode?
Mass produce for use worldwide, awesome
21st July, 2014 @ 3:12 p.m. (California Time)
Such a shameless use of readers time to post this lying article without any proof or technical data. This was a mislead waste of my time.
21st July, 2014 @ 5:42 p.m. (California Time)
Magnetic air cars - remember that? I went to some of their meetings in San Jose. It was hard to keep a straight face. They were to use air amplification (a valid phenomena) but were initially vague on the actual energy source. Magnets was one answer and then confidence was placed in zero-point energy.
What is the energy source for the electric motors in the vehicles in this article?
21st July, 2014 @ 11:20 p.m. (California Time)
If they really did make a giant leap in battery technology they would become trillionares selling batteries instead of limiting their battery tech to only super cars sold to a couple hundred people. From the other article kalqlate linked:
"Understandably, Nanoflowcell isn't divulging the full recipe for its flow battery or electrolytes. In its introductory video, it describes the solutions simply as salt water. La Vecchia confirmed that the full truth is a bit more complex, as the electrolytes contain a mix of metal salts and other ingredients."
It definitely reeks of nonsense looking for a sucker to fund it. I did find a wiklipedia article on Flow batteries here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_battery
From that data it looks like an average fluid energy density of of 50-80 Wh/L can be expected. Compare that to Nickel–cadmium at 50–150 Wh/L and Lithium Ion at 100 to 250 Wh/kg
Also from searching it looks like the initial batteries used in the Tesla Roadster were 117 Wh/kg and the Panasonic batteries in the Model S are 240 Wh/kg. This also explains why Tesla announced an updated pack available for the Roadster at the end of this year.
22nd July, 2014 @ 12:59 a.m. (California Time)
Needless to say, it doesn't run on common "salt," but 2 electrolyte solutions with a metal salt in 2 different oxidation states - possible vanadium, although there are other choices, including non-metallic organic solutions of quinone/hydroquinone, which is much cheaper. Always seems odd to me that inventor/innovators concentrate on producing a vehicle that is in the super car category, when all we need is a small family car that costs little to run.
22nd July, 2014 @ 1:35 a.m. (California Time)
“InventPeace” is a mis-informed conspiracy theory “true believer”, who should be made aware of the following facts before worshiping at the feet of Nickel Metal Hydride batteries:
NiMH batteries are larger and heavier than Li-ion batteries. Lighter battery packs with higher energy density make it easier to get a car moving.
While Li-ion and NiMH batteries actually hold a similar amount of power, the charge time of NiMH is 10 to12 hours while the charge time for Li-ion is 1 to 3 hours and Lithium-ion batteries are less affected by memory effect, have a significantly lower Self-discharge rate and can tolerate lower temperature and warmer environments that a NiMH battery, and also, each NiMH AA cell can only give 1.2v compared to Li-ion Cells which can give 3.7v.
Also, “salcen” misses the point entirely. It's not about the car, it's about the use of the NanoFlowcel as a power source.
The Quant e-Sportlimousine is a method to demonstrate this concept. Whether using this type of flow cell technology as a power source will actually work as stated is another thing entirely.
As for “-dphiBbydt” who asks: “What is the energy source for the electric motors in the vehicles in this article?”, he should re-read the article where he will find, in the second sentence of the first paragraph in the article, the words:
“The car, which uses an electrolyte flow cell power system”
And then, in the first sentence of paragraph 5, he will find the words:
“We are delighted as pioneers to be able to present an automobile driven by flow cell technology” and then again, in the first sentence of paragraph 6, he would read:
“The flow cell system powering the Quant e-Sportlimousine's four electric motors develops electricity from an electrochemical reaction created by two electrolyte solutions”.
And finally “Daishi”, who says:
“If they really did make a giant leap in battery technology they would become trillionares selling batteries instead of limiting their battery tech to only super cars sold to a couple hundred people” should ALSO re-read the article where he will find, in the second last paragraph, the words:
"The potential of the NanoFlowcell is much greater, especially in terms of domestic energy supplies as well as in maritime, rail and aviation technology. The NanoFlowcell offers a wide range of applications as a sustainable, low cost and environmentally-friendly source of energy".
23rd July, 2014 @ 12:19 p.m. (California Time)
Electric car technology runs on salt water. Amazing
24th July, 2014 @ 4:50 p.m. (California Time)
2014 and fossil fuel STILL the predominant fuel for the planet. Such a shameful wrongdoing. what does 100 years of recent history tell us about technological breakthroughs and discoveries that threaten a monopoly? They are vehmently opposed and surpressed. All you nay sayers regarding the technology of what is possible want to look at what has been invented that you have never even heard about. Its happening and its been happening for a while. Governments especially sit on technology that you would not believe. Thats why people like Elon Musk from Tesla gave away his patents..its because he knows whats up!.. Drastic action is needed or we will forever be beholding to these greedy corporatist pigs who have scant regard for life on this planet only caring about fat $ bills. (oil companies)
2nd August, 2014 @ 3:50 a.m. (California Time)
As someone who has been studying how mankind can clean up the oceans with self-powering drone technology, this is very exciting news.
Think how wonderful it would be to have “skimming drones” going throughout our oceans 24/7, not only removing the millions & millions of tons of our garbage we dumped into the sea but also using that garbage as an energy source.
Yes, yes we can!
31st August, 2014 @ 5:17 p.m. (California Time)
This is great news and hopefully it will take off.
To those saying things about the "batteries", from the article (if you had actually read it):
"The flow cell system powering the Quant e-Sportlimousine's four electric motors develops electricity from an electrochemical reaction created by two electrolyte solutions. This electricity is forwarded to super capacitors where its stored and distributed."
Super Caps are stable, old proven technology. They offer fast charge and slow discharge. Also have a much higher cycle life than batteries.
3rd September, 2014 @ 7:43 p.m. (California Time)
LOL too funny, People will believe anything. It reminds me of the thin film solar company that said they could make super cheap solar sales to put on roofs. Tons of idiots and governments invested in the company and then the owners took the money and ran all the way to south east asia. Yes you can store energy in salt water, we have known this for some time. BUT, the amount of power and is so small that the the system they are demonstrating couldn't power the lights, let alone the pumps to move the water, and certainly could never move the car an inch. I am sure everyone has pointed this out, but I just had to ad my 2cents.
25th September, 2014 @ 10:24 p.m. (California Time)
Still not as good as near-silent, rotary Wankel inwheel air motors, with 10,000 psi carbon fiber composite air pressure tank and 1000 mile range per fill-up, of air. (GM Cadillac Aera 2010 concept car.) New cars should be VTOL (vertical takeoff and landing) replacing the 4 wheels with 4 computer controlled ducted counterrotating turbofans. That flow-cell battery is great at home though!
15th January, 2015 @ 1:57 p.m. (California Time)
The guy behind it is Nunzio La Vecchia: Pop star, self-educated engineer and physicist, inventor, genius, entrepreneur, and convicted fraudster. Feel free to do your own research on the guy, then come back and tell us if you're still confident in his "break-through" technology.
Have you read a review of the car? No? Don't feel too bad; no one has.
The flow cell battery requires more than 400 litres (105 gallons) of liquid electrolyte. It's energy density is just a fraction of the LiOn batteries used by Tesla. Accelerative power is produced through use of super-capacitors and when they are depleted (very quickly) it then has just 30kW of electrical power at it's disposal (40 hp; think BMW i3 REx) to push more than 2,300kg (5,070 lbs) of mass while the super-capacitors recharge. They would have to have a buffer battery (not mentioned).
About this "salt water..."
It's a proprietary blend of highly concentrated specific metallic salts and other ingredients, the price of which is unknown. If it cost $.50/gal., it would be roughly equivalent to the price of gas. It would need to cost less than $.17/gal to be equal to or better than electric vehicles. I highly doubt that this tech is better than long-range BEV tech.
See the new Tesla Model P90D which has a "Ludicrous Mode" enabling it to do 0-60 mph in 2.8 sec. (not a typo)! The non-Performance Model S 90D has an actual range of 300 miles at 65 mph.
20th July, 2015 @ 7:55 p.m. (California Time)